Interview – Gulliver Giles Gives Away His $25 Million Sales Secrets

I’m interviewing Gulliver Giles, and he’s most famous for his Armour Of God, which is a strategic objection handling system. He’s really big on getting people to buy, out of a place of love and respect, but not taking any crap from them either.

He’s a coach in sales, and he runs a three million dollar company, coaching people in sales, and he’s worked in seventy to eighty different industries, so he’s been around.

He’s also really good at systematizing sales, and scripting for teams. So he can go into almost any business, systemize their sales, and make a script so their business generates more sales.

Gulliver, regularly goes into companies, with five to ten people on the team, and doubles and triples their sales results.

For anyone interested, Gulliver’s website is strategicanarchy.com.

Gulliver also has a game website, called swordofsales.com, which is a geeky computer game, in the old school style of a text based format. Where you go through it, and it create a sales approach for you at the end of emails, that you can use.

Learning should be fun, according to Gulliver, he’s bit old school, and he likes Dungeons and Dragons. He’s often closing sales, while at the same time playing Skyrim, or Call Of Duty.

An audience member, has written in with this question for Gulliver: “for someone just starting in business, what is the biggest advantage to starting with sales? Compared to copy writing, and other kinds of marketing.

He thinks that every market, at its core, is a sales and marketing business. Gulliver recognises the importance of marketing, to generating better leads.

He sees a lot of people, spending a lot of time, making an amazing marketing system, which never sees the light of day, or the incredible book that never gets seen, or the incredible website that cost a billion dollars, that doesn’t create sales.

Gulliver thinks that if you put your skill set in sales first, you’re able to generate conversations, and be able to talk to people. He’s seen that if you’re doing really well, a good online conversion rate is 5%, but it costs a lot of money to drive traffic to create that.

Whereas, if you’re looking at calling people, a terrible sales person creates a 5% conversion rate, and a mediocre sales person converts one in ten. A good sales person will convert two in ten, and an effective sales person will close five out of ten people.

Gulliver has students who close eight out of ten. He’s found that you’re going to have a lot more control out of a conversation, plus on a call it’s very difficult for someone to ignore you, versus an email (you can just delete this).

He thinks marketing is important, and is viable, and understanding copy writing and persuasion is immensely important. He thinks that a lot of people, at the start of their business, are fearful of sales, and he finds that they’re often at their own peril: they ignore sales skills, in favour of being on Facebook, and sending emails, or whatever it might be.

Gulliver himself, started out in his first sales role, and he thought he’d be different than all those horrible pushy sales people. His plan was to send out some brochures in the mail, and that everyone would like him, because he wasn’t trying to sell them anything.

The brochures were sent out, and he got no responses. He then called them all, to see if they got his brochure, and they said: “they hadn’t read it”, then they hung up.

He’s found that you can get all focused, on the reasons why you can’t get on the phone: how scary it is, and how people will be mean to you.

People will always need their problems solved, and that’s what sales is all about, it’s about solving their problems. So you’ve got to be a lot more effective, and understanding of their problems.

He finds if you ignore your customers, and don’t talk to them, you’re going to make a lot less money. He’s found it’s very important to be getting on the phone, and start calling. If you’re a start-up business, and not making any money, get on the phone and call up a hundred people out of the Yellow Pages, and talk to them, and see what happens, because it’s going to make you a lot more money, than sitting there sending emails to people you’ve never met.

I think we live in a world, where everyone wants to hide behind fifteen layers of marketing, and get passive income, as soon as possible.

Gulliver’s seen that everyone wants to do the four hour work week, in their underpants, where money falls from the sky. But Zuckerberg, Jobs, Henry ford, you look at all the millionaires, and billionaires, who’ve moved society forward, and they’ve all worked their ass off.

If you don’t want to work hard in business, you’re not supposed to be in business. Go work at McDonald’s, or somewhere you can do the least amount, for the least amount of money. However, if you want to run a business, and be a millionaire, and have passive income, Gulliver’s found it takes ten years of working your ass off, to get the business to the point where it pays you.

He knows that sales is work, just hard work. Sales is the least paid easy work, and the best paid hard work in the world. There’s nothing easy about it, until you get good at it, and you’re not scared of it anymore, but you don’t get to be not scared, by not doing it.

To find an abundance of leads, in business to business selling, Gulliver recommends the Yellow Pages. There are a lot of advertisements of people trying to get sales in their business, who’re looking for help advertising, and getting more customers.

When he first started out in cold calling, he had three days to make a sale, and if he didn’t make a sale, they would have fired him. He had his Yellow pages, his script, then you got on the phone, and started making calls. Gulliver avoided making phone calls, and didn’t make much money, until he was so scared, that he had to make money. Then he go on the phone and made up to one hundred and fifty phone calls a day.

That’s when he started making money, and got a lot of sales. He says that there’s the Yellow pages, and there’re people all over Facebook. He’s found that you can start a conversation about your niche, and target market, get them on your page, agree over it, and then chat to them and say: “hey, I can see you’re really upset about this, can I help you?” then he gets them on the phone to have a conversation with them.

Another exercise that he does, is to draw up three columns: number one would be, friends, family and fools they know, who can refer them to him. He’d get on the phone, and say: “I’m looking for this guy, if you know a guy going through these problems, refer me.”

The second column he’d get you to draw up, if you don’t have any leads, is business people you know, who have customers, who might be interested in being your client. You could do a joint venture, or a strategic partnership, where you could ring them up, and say: “hey, you know how you’ve got thirteen thousand people on your email list, who’re interested in xyz thing that I do. Can you send out an email? So that I can talk to some of them.”

The third thing is lowest hanging fruit, the people you know who need what you have: they might be in the Yellow pages, they might be on Facebook, they might be friends, people you know, who you can sell to right away.

He’s found that if you do those things, there’s always someone to call, and that’s the exercise Gulliver gets all his people to do, before lead generations, and before they figure out pay per click. From experience, he knows that there’s about thirty thousand dollars of wind fall cash, just sitting there, in your current network, if you go out to them, and work that network properly.

About four or five years ago, I actually went down every business on my street, and visited them, just to cover all the bases. I actually managed to get a sale, because there’re a lot of businesses on my street. You only need a couple of sales to get you started.

Gulliver has heard that people use the Yellow page scrapers, but he hasn’t used them in a long time, because he’s fortunate to have a database of ten thousand people. Plenty of people know who he is, and most of his business is coming straight through referral.

Friends of Frank Kerns, and friends of Ryan dice, are the people he works with, these guys are on a very high level, and the programmes that he belongs to, are on a very high level.

A lot of people come to Gulliver asking for his help, which is wonderful. He made one hundred and sixty thousand dollars in January, and half of it was people coming and saying to him: “I’ve heard you’re awesome, here’s ten, twenty thousand dollars.”

He hasn’t had to call the Yellow pages in a very long time, but when you’re just starting out, and you’re new, do whatever the hell you can to get numbers, provided it’s legal of course.

He’s found that getting your name out there, is key to starting out, because Gulliver didn’t have a lot of leads. He had about fifty people on the database, and he called every single one of them, and sold twenty five of them into a seminar.

He didn’t have a lot of leads back then, so they were tough days. He would network, ask for referrals, and do whatever he could.

Gulliver has a piece of paper on his desk, and he has a sales system, which has a tick boxing system, where he tracks every single stage of his script.

If he has a sales person making calls, he will have them tracking where they lost the call, where they’re getting hung upon, where people are losing interest, and where they feel they’re getting stuck. Then Gulliver can coach them on the right part of the script, and know how they’re getting through the process, so they’re getting all the way through to the objections, and track which objections they’re struggling with, and losing sales to.

On a daily basis, Gulliver will get them to track how many calls they’ve  made, how many people they got through to have a conversation with, and what objections they’ve won, where they’ve had objections, what objections they’ve lost, and where they’re having trouble.

The people he works with, he gets them to track this information throughout their working day, on an hourly basis. This way he knows what calls they’re making on an hourly basis, where they’re getting the best results. From this, he can interpret where they’re losing energy for example, because they aren’t making as many calls.

He knows exactly what to coach them on, because he knows exactly where they’re getting stuck.

When a sales person comes to him, and the employee is like: “I don’t know if I’m cut out for this job.” Gulliver will ask what’s going on, and the employee will say something along the lines of: “I just feel like I’m not good at it, and everyone hates me”.

Then when he gets them to go through their stats, and they’ve made ten phone calls, and got through to one person. Gulliver can then empathise with them that they only got through to one person, and they were mean to the employee.

Gulliver will then give them advice from the information, the employee has been taking down, such as: “well you haven’t been doing enough calls, get back on the phone, and make some more”.

Having the actual metrics, and statistics, means Gulliver can advise his employee how to fix it. But if you don’t know, and you’re not tracking any of these things, you don’t know where they’re getting stuck, you don’t know what objections they’re getting, and you can’t put it in perspective.

When people are reading a newspaper, Gulliver has noticed people focus on the bad headline, and focus on that. He’s found it to be the same with sales: “they will have one shit conversation, and they’ll go off the rails.”

If one of  his employees got through to one hundred people, and 25 of them were busy, you’re getting off the phone too early, before you even have  a conversation with them. He can then advise the employee to be more assertive with them.

He can then look at the introduction of the employee’s script, and each stage, so they know where they’re getting thrown off the phone, so they can fix that.

Instead of not knowing, and the employee going on how they feel, and their emotions, where they feel terrible. Gulliver can see where they’re going wrong, where they’re screwing up, and where they’re losing control.

It’s very easy for Gulliver to then see straight away, where they are screwing up, and how to fix it.

Gulliver reduces the number of employees leaving in the first few weeks, by making them more sales in the first week.

I’ve seen a client of mine, where he has a lot of sales people working for him, but they’re always leaving after a certain period of time, and they do get sales (these guys will get 30% commission, which is huge, on a high ticket item).

Gulliver’s view, is that there could be a whole bunch of things going wrong, that could cause my client’s sales staff to leave so soon.  One of the things could be team culture: there could be something bad going on within the team.

Another thing that he thinks it could be, is terrible leads: They may not be well prepared enough clients, and then that’s a really hard job.

Gulliver also thinks that it could be they aren’t making enough money, as they aren’t getting much commission.  It’s difficult to say what’s going on his floor, without Gulliver talking to him, and asking him some more questions.

What he normally finds, is that week one, people are shitting themselves, because they’re being pushed to do the job. They make the dials, and they get a sale or two.

Then in week two, they think they’ve got it nailed, and they’re going to make a million dollars. So they stop making phone calls, because they’re getting lazy.

Week three comes along, there’s no pipeline, and no sales. All of a sudden they’ll shit themselves, walk out the door and find something else. That’s what Gulliver’s seen happen, and understanding this pattern, understanding this issue, and knowing its coming, and being prepared for this scenario is massive.

He knows what they’re going to do, and when to be on them, giving them a hand, walking the floor, and measuring their metrics, and making sure their dial rates are still up, and they’re not fudging their statistics.

He watches them in week two, and three, to consistently make sure they keep on doing it, and you build that iron cage of expectation around their timeliness, around their dial rate, around their call targets, around all these things.

Gulliver told me, in a previous sales conversation, that you don’t want your people to spend too much time filling In sheets, and all that kind of stuff. Gulliver’s system, is to use a simple bit of A4 paper, that they fill out every hour, and it’s just crossing off a checklist.

He’s not talking about the call centre being silent, because all these people are on their computer, filling out forms for half the working day.

Data base maintenance, and CRM maintenance is important, but if you’re going to have them do it, get them to do it at 4.30 (have them fill it in before they leave). Have a break at lunchtime, where they can catch up on some paper work, and emails.

If they send a call, and update the database, it’s not very efficient (it’s time consuming).

Gulliver went to a company the other day, and they were a million dollar plus property wealth coaching company. When he goes in as a sales coach, sometimes people will try and tell him, how it’s going to be. One of the guys said: “I can’t be making fifty calls a day, it’s impossible.” Gulliver just about lost his mind.

On a good day, Gulliver’s good sales people will make between one hundred and twenty, maybe one hundred fifty calls, per day.  He found out the reason this guy couldn’t even make fifty calls, was because he was taking all this time to send faxes and emails, and fill out contact forms on the CRM.

Out of eight hours a day, these guys were spending four out of eight hours, filling in forms. He found it incredible they were getting any sales calls done at all, because the level of intensity, the level of energy just wasn’t there.

He’s found that people who get their employees to fill out all these complicated forms, will have a really good database, and that’s great, but they’ll lose sales. Gulliver has found it best, if you have them come in at eight thirty in the morning, prepare their list, on a piece of paper, and dial until midday.

Then let them take their lunch, and if they need to at lunch time, update some details on the data base, or process some payments, or whatever it maybe. Then until three or four o clock in the afternoon, make more phone calls. After this, then do some contact forms, report their statistics, or whatever it maybe.

Using this method, he’s found that he can get two really big chunks of dialling in, where they can make the contact they really need to, because a sales persons job is to sell.

Gulliver has found you can hire an employee to fill out the sheets, and add stuff to the CRM, and the database. The people making sales calls need to be on the phone.

I recommend spending four hours on the phone, dialling and talking per day, otherwise you’re not doing sales.

Gulliver’s found that you get what you focus on: if you focus on having a really well maintained database, you’ll get no sales. However if you focus on getting through to people, and solving their problems, then there is a lot more value in that for your sales person, than being involved in unnecessary tasks.

Having been involved in sales for over ten years now, Gulliver’s very good at what he does, but what he does, comes out in a very scripted fashion. He doesn’t sound scripted, but what comes out every time is very similar, because he’s been doing it for so long, that it’s the same exact strategy that works every single time.

When he gets a new sales person, they don’t know what Gulliver knows, they haven’t got ten years of sales experience. He also doesn’t hire experienced sales people, because they generally have awful habits, which they’ve picked up elsewhere.

He hires new sales people, to build into the kind of sales person he wants them to be, because it’s less work. He will always use a script with those guys, because he wants them to say exactly what he does, as that’s what works.

This way he can track exactly where they’re getting stuck, and where they’re going wrong, because that way he can fix it, and there won’t be any confusion. All his sales people are all on the same platform, all on the same system, and doing the same thing.

There’s no danger, that any of his salespeople will go along making stuff up, and screwing stuff up, and that Gulliver can’t help them. If he doesn’t know what they’re doing, he can’t manage their script, manage their presentation, tweak it, or help them through objections.

It’s about systems, and systemizing it so that it’s seamless. Having looked at major volume call centres, that take inbound calls for the bank, which take down calls for large organizations, every single thing they say is on a script.

If you look at large outbound market research centres, big million dollar plus companies, they are all scripted. It’s all scripted to the nail, because they have very strict guidelines about what they want their people to say, because they’ve done the research, for years and years. This is why Gulliver scripts.

Gulliver has never had a sales person go off the script, unless it was without his permission.  He’s also never had a sales person that’s stayed with him for ten years either. It tends to be that an employee will stay with him for a year or two, and then go and start their own business.

What will happen, is that his sales people will get taken off the script, when the customer wants to go down a tangent, but he has a technique for his sales people, to get them back on track with the script, because he wants them to go through the process to the end of the script, where the sale happens.

He doesn’t recommend allowing your sales people to be uncontrolled, unmonitored, and un measured in what they’re doing. If you can measure it, you can improve it and refine it. You can’t measure it, if you don’t know what they’re doing. They might be great, and amazing, and converting and making all these sales, but if you don’t what they’re saying (they could be saying anything).

Gulliver had a sales member come on board, work from home,  didn’t know what they were doing, and the end result of this was that he got a whole bunch of refunds, because he didn’t know what they were saying.

This experience has turned him off, to a certain extent of not monitoring, and not recording what people do, because he’s found that they get better results when he’s there to monitor them, and they don’t say stuff which is untrue. They also won’t sell things the wrong way, by saying stuff which could land him in legal difficulties, because he’s got everything measured.

To get an employee back on track if they’re asking too many questions, Gulliver uses the start of his Armor Of God technique (which is an objection handling technique). Gulliver will interrupt the person and say to the sales person: “what I hear you asking is blah blah blah blah, you just asked that correctly, thank you for raising that point, and let me re assure you we will cover that, but I’m doing this in a particular way: this process has been designed in a particular way , to give you the most possible value. Do you mind if we go back to the process? And that we go through every step properly, and we’ll cover that point a little bit later in the call, does that make sense?”

He actively listens to them, rewards them for bringing that up, and reassures them that it will be covered, but you have a specific process that you’re taking them through, and that the sales person will get to that later on.

Gulliver has found if you’re selling from stage, and someone interrupts you, when you’re trying to close a sale with a stupid question, you’ll let the customer know that you’ll be covering that a bit later on, and then go back to what you were doing.

An example of what he’d say when a customer interrupts him with a stupid question: “thank you so much for raising that, it’s an important thing, and I reassure you I’ll be covering it in a minute, but I just need to get through this process, that I’m running here for you guys, so you can get the value.” He will sidestep the whole thing completely.

In terms of how well a sales person will do: if they are calling from a cold list, and they’re a dreadful sales person, they might get one in twenty people to buy (that would be about average).

If you’re are good, and doing what you’re told, in your first two or three months, and you’re closing 1 or 2 sales in ten, then you’re doing ok.

Gulliver has a student at the moment, who is closing eight out of ten, off cold Facebook traffic, and she’s two years in, and she’s been working very hard, to develop the skill set necessary. She’s got to the point now, where she doesn’t want to close eight of ten people, she wants to be more selective, and sell to less people with a higher price point.

She’s trying to reduce her conversion, and reject more people from her process, which is counter intuitive, but when it gets to that point there’s the opportunity to close two people for thirty thousand dollars, instead of closing lower value clients, who will amount to less than thirty thousand dollars.

In medium sized companies, the good sales callers will close three out of ten calls, if they’re using leads from the Yellow Pages. Newbies tend to be one out of ten, and three out of ten is probably about average.

I’ve found that guys who are selling five thousand dollar websites, I’ve heard one out of thirty from using cold leads like that, and that’s really impressive.

On this point Gulliver’s advice would be to have a good script, and a good rejection handling method in place, to handle that, and get those sort of results. It won’t happen if they’re pulling shit out their ass. It has to happen where they are constantly refining it. Gulliver has built his script up, over years of practice, and that’s how he’s managed to get his people that good.

In terms of screening the potential client, Gulliver has an introductory phase in his script, where he’ll greet them in a particular way, then he’ll use a risk reversal, and then go on to ask them to tell him a bit about themselves. For the first twenty minutes of the call, he has a probing section, where he’ll illicit from them what sort of business they’re running.

If the potential client is running a multi-level marketing company, he will reject them, or if they’re running a franchise, he’ll often reject them. If they’re under a particular amount, or a raw start up, depending on their attitude, he might reject them.

Gulliver’s probing process from the outside, sounds like he is incredibly enthusiastic, and interested in them (which he is), but it’s designed specifically to illicit information, to find out if it’s someone that he’s going to close, and if it is what he will close them into, and he’ll profile them at that point, into what he’s going to be selling them, for the rest of the script.

He’ll look at how much they’re turning over, what sort of industry they are in (there are certain ones he won’t work with). He doesn’t tend to work with multi-level marketers, and franchises, because those industries are restricted: in terms of what they’re allowed to do, and how they’re allowed to do it. They also don’t have a lot of uniqueness in terms of what they’re marketing, or the ability to define a unique value proposition, against anyone else who sells the same thing.

Also, he’s found them to be more difficult to help in that sense, and when he has taken them on, they’ve been opportunistic. They’re not building a business they really care about, they just want to try and make a quick buck, and that’s not something that aligns with Gulliver’s values.

He wants to work with someone who’s successful, makes a lot of money, but also someone who’s passionate about what they do. He’s found that it’s often someone who’s created that business themselves from scratch, is proud of it, and they have skin in game.

People who’re in the start-up phase, or in the first couple of years of starting up their business, tend to change their mind, on whether they want to be in business or not: they aren’t one hundred percent committed.

People who’re at the plus six figure, seven figure mark, Gulliver has found it easier to deal with them, as they’re committed to what they’re doing: they’ve been in it for years, and are serious about the skill sets that he teaches, particularly since he teaches sales.

Sales is very confronting, and difficult: most people aren’t cut out for it, or refuse to do the work to get better at it. This is why Gulliver is very selective about who he’ll train in sales, because often they’re unworthy of the challenges, and the tasks that he’s going to set for them.

If Gulliver was screening for a five thousand dollar website to sell, and he was cold calling accountants in Australia, he’d be looking particularly, for someone who is looking to create a website to create leads that creates growth, and creates money. He’d be looking for someone with a minimum net purchase in excess of two or three thousand dollars, so he could very easily show them a business to business ROI case. He’ll show them a model, of what his website is going to do for them, of how it’s going to generate leads for them, and how much traffic spend they’ll need to create a sale.

He wants to be able to demonstrate ROI (he wants to be looking for someone, that he can demonstrate a return on investment for very quickly). He’d be selling them with the proposition that this website will be a money making proposition, and not just a website.

The potential client, wouldn’t necessarily have to be looking to spend money on ads. He’d actually prefer they were someone that he could show how to do that, or sell them that as a service on top of the website. He would offer to manage traffic for them, and keep it as an ongoing service for them.

Gulliver is in an industry where he sells how to create a lead funnel, and he sells business courses on how to turn a thousand dollars into ten, fifteen thousand dollars using Facebook traffic.

If he was a website designer, he wouldn’t be making the mistake most web designers make: which is to sell the website. Gulliver would sell the website, and make money from getting customers on the website. He’d want to make sure, that the customer is someone who has the ability to close sales, make a lot of money from it, and give Gulliver a great testimonial.  He wants them to be selling something reasonably expensive, so that he can make them a lot of money very quickly.

This is what’s going to sell later on in the call, if you’ve got all the information up front, it’s very easy at the end of the call of how you can convince them, that you can help them, because they’ve already kind of convinced themselves.

Gulliver has a perfect track record, because he only works with guys that he knows will produce results (this is his main focus).

Two kinds of people come to Gulliver: the people who don’t do the work, and will not get any results, then complain about it, or the people who do the work, and get results. He’s constantly battling vigilantly, to remove people from his funnel, who are idiots, because they won’t do the work.

He gets the people who just want to have a free conversation with him, and that’s ok, because they’re wasting their time: Gulliver gets paid no matter what.

If he closes three out of ten people, and makes thirty thousand dollars, that’s three thousand dollars a call. From this point of view, the free people don’t bother him, but the cheap people who will buy your course, but not do the work, they will then go away and complain to everyone about how your course didn’t work (what they really mean is they didn’t do any work), or they will go and refund on you, and end up hitting your cash flow when you can least afford it.

This is why Gulliver is very restrictive about who he deals with, and he’s getting even more selective.

To get to the point where he can be selective, it’s been a very hard road, because he used to want to please everybody, and he believed he could help everybody. However, the fact is not everybody wants to help themselves. That’s why in the last two years, he’s increasingly been looking at his sales processes, and using a process of disqualification from what he offers (reducing the close rate).

He now focuses on going into a corporation, who will pay him twenty five thousand dollars a day, to make them two hundred and fifty thousand dollars that week.  He then sells them into an ongoing consulting programme, where they’ll pay him ten to fifteen thousand dollars a month, and a percentage of profits above an agreed mark, or whatever it is.

He prefers to deal with this kind of customer, rather than dealing with a broke start-up, who doesn’t know whether they want to be a life coach, or go back to MLM.

The sales process he uses briefly explained: there’s an introductory phase, where he uses a few tricks to get that person to like him, almost instantaneously. For example he’ll call, and say: “Hey is that Aleksander? Aleksander Vitkin?” Then from Aleksander’s response of “yes” he’d reply with: “Aleksander Vitkin, you are the very man I need, I hear you’re a great man, of taste and distinction.”

From this Gulliver has got Aleksander to say yes three times. Also your name, you’ve been hearing it since you were a little baby, so having heard it three times, you’re curious as to what Gulliver wants. Even if you’re in a bad mood, this is a good buying in question, because subconsciously you’re think what’s he going on about. Then when the client hears Gulliver say: “I hear you’re a man of great taste and distinction.” The potential client will be wondering what the fuck is going on here. Then Gulliver would provide some proof: “well Aleksander, you actually opted in for my book on sales, and that means you’re a man who appreciates me, which means you’re a man of incredible taste.”

He will laugh, because he’s making a joke about himself, he’s very overly confident, and making fun of this fact. Gulliver’s laughing, to make them understand it’s ok to laugh, and then they laugh. The ice breaks at this point, that’s his introduction (all these things happen within a couple of seconds).

Gulliver’s throwing out several different techniques, to break down their barriers and get them saying yes, and stop them resisting him (that’s everything).

If you can get that bit right, the next bit is the risk reversal: “Aleksander, I’m calling you today, for the discovery session you booked in for, and this calls all about you. I want to find out where you are, where you are, what’s going on, and if I can help you then great, if not then that’s cool to, so tell me your story.”

What Gulliver is essentially getting at, you’ve asked for this, and he’s here to deliver it, he wants to see where the potential customer is, and then he’ll say: “if I can help you, that’s good, and if not, that’s cool to.”

This is the risk reversal he uses, he’s going under the pretence that this is just a discovery tool: figuring out where they are at, and then: “tell me all about you.”

Gulliver can do this in the space of under twenty seconds, and he’s got them talking about their favourite topic of conversation, which is your business.

Anyone who’s an entrepreneur, he finds will talk about their business all day, if he just shuts up and listens, because he cares about their business. It doesn’t happen very often, because no one cares about your business, except the business owner.

So when Gulliver opens them up, and his action to take his to ask the guy: “tell me more about you.” Then they are going to be far more likely to open up, and tell me their story.

Usually at this point, they’ll say: “of you want to hear my story?” they’re shocked, because some actually cares about their story, and off they go talking about themselves for twenty minutes. Gulliver will probe, and prompt for that information that he just explained.

He’ll make enthusiastic noises, such as: “wow” “really?” “tell me more.” This is like phone sex to the people he’s talking to, and an erotic experience for some business people, because no one fucking cares.

If you call them up, and sound more interested in them, more than anyone else that’s ever called before, because you actually really are (they’re giving you all the information you need), and you can use all this information to close them later on.

Probing questions he’d use would be: “tell me more about that” “what’s your average life time value of a customer?” “How much did you trade up to in gross sales figures in the last financial year?”

When they’ve talked all that out, Gulliver will use the first triplicate: “Aleksander, I hear you saying blah blah blah you just said, is that correct?” if he gets a response of yes, then there’s the triplicate. There’s an encapsulation, an active listen, then a trial close. Gulliver has then herded it all back to them, so they feel understood.

He then follows on with: “Aleksander, I think I know which one of you this is, but tell me what you think.”

He’ll then list off three types of people at this point in the conversation, and if Gulliver’s talking to you, and you’re his ideal client, he’ll ask you if you’re like type number one: who’s looking for more qualified leads, of people coming through the front door, who want to buy what you’re selling now.

Or number two, you’re looking to get people to spend larger amounts of money, so that you can increase your profitability, while dealing with less people.

Or you could be number three, where you’re a leader of business, where you’re wanting to step up, and scale your business, and you want to put systems in place, in order to replace your efforts as a sales person, and your efforts in the front line, and be able to spread yourself further. This way you can be the truly managerial director of the business, who counts the money, and shows up at the board meetings, but the business pays you, and the business does the work.

Then he asks them which one they think they are. Gulliver is doing a few things here: number one, is he’s showing them what he does, and then number two he’s asking them a question, which isn’t really a question, giving them a choice which isn’t really a choice.

There are three ways to grow a business: number one is to increase the amount of sales that you’re getting, number two is increase the amount of money you’re charging, and number three is increasing frequency of purchases across all different sales points. These are the three laws of business growth.

If you’re in business, you want all these things, you’re not ever not going to want more leads, you’re never going to not want to charge more, and you’re not ever going to want to stay in that business, if you don’t have to. You want to sit back on the beach, and count the money, while the sales increase.

Those are thing things you want. Gulliver is basically asking if you’d like to buy from him, in three different ways. It’s known as an alternative close: it presents the alternatives, but there are no alternatives, resistance is futile.

They’re being closed, and they don’t even realise it. They usually say something like: “I’m all three of those things” or “hey I really need more leads” (if they’re new).  Or number two: “I really need to make a more valuable thing, I’ve got a bunch of clients, but they’re a bunch of dead shits because they don’t pay me any money”. Or number three: “I’ve got so much to do, to have free time, and be free of the business. I want sales people, and a marketing executive, so I don’t have to come into work, but I need to make the cash flow to make this happen, so I do need more leads as well, and I need to charge more, so I can dig myself out of this hole, of always having to do all the work.”

They are going to buy buy or buy, through Gulliver’s process. There’s a bunch of different breakthroughs that he gives them around those areas, then he gets to the end of it, and he says: “so would like to hear how I can help you?” The customer will agree to hear more, and Gulliver will say: “well the cost to you is all that money, and all those things that we’ve just talked about, that you’re not making. The price is, doing the hard work to do it differently, getting my help and being vulnerable. The actual investment, is a fraction of all that money that you’re leaving on the table right now. It’s only xyz amount, so would you prefer to use Visa card or Master card.

Then he has his alternative close, and his objection handling, if they’ve got any objections at that point.

If the potential client isn’t going to pay right now, that’s not a thing that he’d solve with a deadline, because it’s not actually going to solve the problem. Gulliver takes their objection, and handles their objection on the first call. If this is the objection, he’ll say to them: “look I recognise that you need to go away and think about this, I appreciate where you’re coming from, and I’m going to reward you for bringing this up, and I want to re assure you, if you’re not throwing your credit card at me right now, then there’s something wrong, and there’s a problem you haven’t told me, or problem that’s bothering you, and the chances are, if you go away and think about it, you’re going to be thinking about that problem you haven’t told me about, and you’re most likely thinking to yourself it’s only fifty percent likely I can solve this problem on my own, therefore I’m not going to buy from this guy, and you won’t see me again. The problem is probably solvable, but I don’t know what it is. Let me remind you, that when you came on this call with me, that you wanted to double, or treble your conversion from what it currently is with sales, and you told me that would take your company from two million dollars to six million dollars, and I’d really love to help you with that, but if you’ve got a problem, that you need to think about making an extra four million dollars, that’s this big it’s stopping you from happily putting down your credit card details, and not making that four million dollars, there’s something wrong here. There are two ways this can go: number one you don’t tell me what it is, and you go away and think about it some more, you’re probably going to figure out that it’s insurmountable. Or you can tell me what the problem is, and I can solve it, or not, and that’s ok. So do you want to be the guy who doesn’t tell me what the problem is, or do you want to be the guy who clarifies it, and we build a really honest relationship, and you tell me what’s worrying you, and I solve it for you. If I can’t, I will let you go.”

The guy Gulliver is selling to on the other end of the line, will normally have objections that it’s their wife, money, or they want a brochure, or they want to look at his website, or a referral or testimonial.

That’s called the Armor Of God: actively listen, and then reward, reassure, remind, align. Contrast two things which can happen, and ask them which one they want to be.

This is the Armor Of God technique: it deals with all five major objections. Gulliver doesn’t care, whatever their excuse is, he cares about the issue that’s stopping them from not signing on with him.

He’s not being pushy, he’s not being mean. Gulliver wants to understand why they aren’t doing it, so he can solve that problem, or if they have bigger problems that he can’t solve, and then he can leave them alone.

His Armor Of God system, is first step actively listen, second step is reward them for being honest, third step is that he wants to reassure them that this problem is OK, but fourth step he wants to remind them of what they said that they wanted.

Fifth step, Gulliver wants to re align them as to what’s important, and ask them if they agree. Sixth step, there’s two different things that can happen: the positive story, or the negative story. He will contrast, and ask them which one they want to be. Next step that he uses, is to trial close them (Gulliver will ask them if he could make that happen for them, and whether it would be worth it). Last step, is the hard close (Visa, or MasterCard).

So if they have another objection, and it’s is money, Gulliver will start from the top: “what I’m really hearing you say is, that you don’t have the money, let me reward you for that, thanks for being so vulnerable, I want to reassure you, we get people come to us all the time, where they aren’t making enough sales, and they don’t have enough money in the bank account. This is not a big deal, I want to re assure you, I can help you with that. I want to remind you, that you wanted to go from two million to six million, is it worth finding some money? And make some sort of payment, is it worth taking some action on that? There’s two ways this can go: I want to realign you with this, for a minute, you can either be the guy who says he doesn’t have the money, and then goes away and thinks about all the money he doesn’t have, and can’t do it. Or you can be the guy, who says you know what, here’s my visa card, I’ve got a thousand dollars on here, take it, and I will go to my bank, and get a temporary overdraft. I will go make another couple of sales, and put the money in my bank, and say take the rest on Friday. The guy who says he can’t, means he’s not going to, the guy who says here’s what I can do, makes it happen. Which one those guys do you want to be? You want to be guy who says he can’t, and doesn’t do it. Or do you want to be the guy who uses his credit card, and puts the deposit down, and goes and finds the rest of the money, and goes and does the rest of the work, and makes more money, and goes from two million to six million. Which one do you want to be? If I could get you to six million, how much would it be worth putting down?”

If the customer responds positively to this, Gulliver will ask: “how much is it worth putting down? Would you prefer to use visa card, or master card?”.

Gulliver has found that there are five core objections: money and time are the big ones. When he’s talking to someone and they say this: it’s really is a value based objection, and it really means that they’re not going to find the money. They don’t intend to do anything about it, and Gulliver will call them out on it nicely (active listen, reward them, and make them feel good about it). Then remind them what’s at stake here, and what they’re going to do.

They will then see how they’re being an idiot, or tell Gulliver to get lost.  The difference between this, and other objection handling is rebuttal.

Rebuttal is where someone will say they don’t have the money, and you will say “well you’re wrong.” Gulliver has found this doesn’t really work, unless it’s customers who has low self-esteem, and are easily pushed into doing things.

These types of customers, will also turn around and refund, they make their mind up really easily, and they’re easily pushed into something, but they go home, and their wife pushes them right back out of it. Gulliver would rather do a really strong close, with really good objection handling, which is very balanced, and uses active listen, respectful, rewarding them for being truthful, reassuring them, helping them. Then delivering that contrast, so then they feel heard, and understood, but they also see, that there’s this divergence between what they say they want, and what they’re doing. Or what would happen, if they actually did it. Then Gulliver goes back in for the close.

Part of sales, is showing good emotions in general. Gulliver thinks it comes down to Tony Robbin’s state management, and you most need this is when you start out in sales, and you have the least resources, and when you’re shit scared and terrified. It’s very difficult to feel incredibly positive and have a good emotional state at all.

What Gulliver has found in that stage of his business, was that he was so miserable, and the debt collectors were calling him, and he was three months overdue on the mortgage so they were going to take the house (it was so scary for him). Gulliver had to go so far into his calls with his clients, in order to escape from his life, and what he found out by accident, was the more you cared about those people, the less you were worried about your own life, and the better the sales you made.

It was by accident that he found out about this. Now, very deliberately, he teaches all his clients, to be detached from their needs, and from the outcome of whether they make a sale, or not.

He tells them to focus on the process and delivering on the best possible job for the client. It’s not about pushing someone into the sale, it’s not about lying, and cheating. It’s about being in love with that person to help them, and having enough respect for yourself that you’re not going to take no for an answer, until you’ve handled every single objection, or that they’re not going to be a paying client.

According to Gulliver, acquiring this mind set takes years of practice. The thing you can do, is to remind yourself why you’re doing it every single day. He gets his employees to design a creed, about what’s important to them.

If you want a good example of a creed, Anthony Robbins does a good piece on it called unleash the power of now. It talks about putting aside the voice in your head, that says you can’t do stuff, and taking power in your life. If you look at Game Of Thrones, with the knights watch, they have their own creed: ‘when night falls I take my watch, etc. It’s about creating a warrior mentality, a warrior creed: “this is what I’m here for, this is what I fight for.”

Another great source, that Gulliver finds to put him in a great emotional state, is music. So when you make a sale, put on your favourite rock song, and rap song. Run around the house listening to Eminem for five minutes. Celebrate this shit, or when you close someone into a no, also celebrate that.

To feel good about being the master, and feel good about being in control, you are the master of your sales approach, you are the guy who’s going to make it happen.

Celebration songs are awesome, having your own warrior creed, and why you do what you do. Look in the mirror, and bring that warrior mind set out of you: remembering what you’re fighting for is wealth, and awesomeness. You don’t care about losing a sale, or losing money, but you care about being the best at what you do.

Gulliver thinks that this is the real win: when you love what you do so much, you don’t care about whether you make a sale, you care whether you do your job properly, as that’s where all your sales come from.

I’ve found that sales coach’s worldwide, say: “it’s the guys who can handle rejections the best, who make the most sales long-term, as they don’t give up at all.” I’ve seen people make one sale, but then give up because they then got rejected twenty five times in a row.

Gulliver’s found that you can choose what you focus on: he believes that there is no such thing as a sales rejection. Rejection is when a girl says: “Gulliver, I’ve found someone else, they have a bigger penis, and drive a better sports car, they have more money, and I’m leaving you, even though we’ve been married for ten years. I’m going to date this other guy, so you can get the fuck out of the house, pack your bags.” This is rejection.

Someone saying they don’t want to buy from you, isn’t rejection. You can’t be attached to victory or defeat, you can’t be attached to making the money, or not making the money. The only thing you need to be attached to, is if you did your job properly, whether you handle the objections to the best of your ability, and if you did that, you did everything you could, and then you move the fuck on.

He’s found that victory is not important: you’ll get pissed on in a couple of days, you go get some rest and recuperation. The sale is not important, it will come if you do the process, and if you don’t stop following the process, you’ll make more sales than anybody else. Gulliver thinks it’s really important, to emphasize victory is not important, the sale is not important, the outcome is not important, yes or no isn’t important. Only whether you’ve done your job properly is important, because that’s where the money comes from.

Gulliver has found the script is important: polishing it until it shines like the sun (the Armor of God is important), loving your customer even though it’s easy to get scared, and be a pussy, and get caught up inside your head, about how you’re never going to make any money, and all that crap we like to do to ourselves.

All of that stuff is unimportant, what’s important is doing your job fucking properly, that’s what’s important.

Having a system, and doing it over and over again, no matter how things are going, whether things are good or bad, and sticking to your fucking guns, that’s important.

This information is very valuable, and anyone listening to this, should go to the Yellow pages, and implement this within the next five minutes, implement this immediately. I can confirm, some of the stuff I recognise, some of the stuff is more advanced than I’m used to.

This is very good stuff for beginners, intermediates, and advanced people.

If you’re scared of sales, and you want to get over it, Gulliver can help you, if you’re good at talking to people, but you have no script, no system, no objection handling, and you’re just kind of handling it as you go along, Gulliver can definitely help you.  If you’re a person in charge, and you want your people to get over their bullshit fears, and help your good performers improve, so you don’t have to hold their hand, and the work all the time, Gulliver can help you put systems in place, to stop having to worry about your sales people.

Depending on what stage you’re at, he can do different things for you. Anyone of those three people: whether you’re a newbie, but wants to get better, or would like to improve. Or you’re someone who’s running a team, and you want to get clear, and not have to manage it. You want to have someone come in and manage it, and have systems set up, so you’re less attached to that team.

These are the three things that Gulliver does, from a point of view of sales. If you go to strategicanarchy.com, there’s a whole different bunch of white papers, and books, and reports. Or if you just want to make friends with Gulliver, reach out to him on Facebook and search ’Gulliver Giles’. Reach out, and say hi, he’ll be more than happy to give you some free gifts, some cool games, and some script building things, books, and some awesome stuff. If you hit Gulliver up, and say I sent you (mention my name: Aleksander Vitkin), he will be more than happy to give you some gifts, and will be happy to chat with you, if you need some help.